Transcriber: Suresh Gupta
Edited by: Keshavgopal Das
Question: How can we overcome envy?
Answer: Usually envy is towards those who we think are equal to us. We do not feel envious
towards the President of America or Prime Minister of India because they are completely out of our scheme. Usually we are envious towards those whom we think we should be superior to them but they are superior to me.

We feel envious because we think that our happiness depends on externals. If I get more than others then I will become happy. At the philosophical level we need to recognise that material things are not the sources of happiness. There may be some titillation or pleasure in getting those, but it is very superficial. When relatives tickle a small child, he may laugh but that laughter is not happiness. If tickling made us happy, we all can have our own perpetual tickling machines!

Besides philosophical understanding, at the practical level, we need to avoid unnecessarily focusing on what others have. Duryodhana, he had no business staying on in Indraprastha after every had left. Exposing ourselves to the things which can lead to envy within us is also not proper. We should take precautions if we cannot bear other’s opulence and do not unnecessarily expose ourselves. However, most importantly if we recognise that actually whatever whoever has that is a gift given by God.

Krishna can give wealth, fame, position and other endless blessings but such material things cannot give lasting happiness. When Krishna manifest in our heart and our heart becomes enriched with devotion for him that is when we get everlasting happiness. When we see that the blessing is given by Krishna, then our focus shifts from them to Krishna.

Our connection with Krishna is not based on what he has given us, but on what we are giving him. If somebody has a lot of wealth, that does not necessarily mean that the person is very dear to Krishna. Opulence of wealth in person’s life may be because of his past karma. Somebody may have a lot, and they may offer very little and may not get the happiness. We may have less but if we use it properly in a mood of service to Krishna, even that less can give us greater things.
Let me give a simple example. Suppose after this program there is a feast where everybody is going to have their own plate with their own delicacies. Now I have a feast in my plate with all delicious things, but rather than looking at my plate I am looking at everybody else’s plate thinking that they have better delicacies. What we need for our happiness, Krishna has already provided us, but we hanker for more. Rather than craving for delicacies in others plate, we focus on the relishing on what is in our plate.

Happiness does not come by focussing on what we have, rather from what we do with what we
have. We accept the gifts that we have, develop those gifts and try to use them properly. By doing so, we will be happy.

In the Ramayana, there is a story of how Lord Ram was building the bridge. Hanuman was carrying the giant boulders and there was a squirrel which was taking some sand particles. Sri Ram said I am equally happy with both of you. You both are doing according to your capacity. Similarly, it is not that greater material prosperity means that someone necessarily has a greater blessings of Krishna That’s also a blessing, but greater blessing of Krishna is giving the greater intelligence to use what we have in Krishna’s service.

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Transcriber: Keshavgopal Das
Question: How can we overcome envy?
Answer: We become envious when we feel that we are in competition with others. If in a college onlyfew seats are available for admission, but number of applications are much more, then if other person gets a seat, it will impact us. At material level sources of happiness are limited but people vying for such happiness are much more. When we have such material definition of happiness, to a large extent, envy is unavoidable. Hence, we need to redefine happiness.

When we define happiness in terms of our bhakti for Krishna, then we understand that Krishna as God is unlimited. He is omnipresent. He can be present in my heart and fully available to me, he can be in your heart as well and fully available to you. The more we realize that spiritual happiness is not of a competitive nature, then we can stabilize in the fight against envy. Once we redirect our heart and eyes towards Krishna, then envy goes away substantially.

When we are in material world, we see that different people have different things both in terms of possessions or talents and abilities. Here what we need to focus on what we have rather than what others have. If in a feast everyone has something different than the other, we start to focus on what is there in other’s plate rather than looking at what we have. If we appreciate what we have in our plate and use it for our satisfaction, we will be happy.

Similarly, we all have gifts in form of possessions and talents. Some gifts might be hidden so we need to watch out for them. We need to have faith that whatever gifts we have are enough for our pursuit of happiness. Even from an objective point of view, if somebody has more ability than the other, we should understand that it is not the ability that define our happiness rather what we do with our ability defines our happiness.
To summarize, by focussing on Krishna and having this faith that whatever gifts we have are enough for my happiness if we use them properly, we can counter envy.

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Transcriber: Suresh Gupta
Question: Are the Mahabharata real or stories?
Answer: History is not like an empirical repeatable science like gravity which is proved by the falling
of a fruit in the past and present. Then how do we know what happened historically? Broadly
speaking, there are multiple ways. One way is to adopt the same methodology which historians use
and then look at Ramayana and Mahabharata. Few years ago, in an archaeological expedition the
remains of an ancient city were found under the water which was off the coast of the city of Dwarka.
Certain seals were found bearing marks of an ancient city. There was also the name of Vasudeva
(one of the names of Krishna) marked there. Hence, archaeological evidence for the existence of the
city of Dwarka is almost non- debatable now. Everybody accepts it. This can be one way to know
about history.
Second way, which is more sophisticated, is called archeoastronomy. Archeoastronomy is the
science of using the knowledge of mathematics and astronomy to know how the planetary bodies or
the celestial bodies move and using this we can also predict the occurrence of eclipses. We can also
predict, to some extent, astronomical patterns and also whether a full solar eclipse occurred in the
past or when it will reoccur in future. As per the Vedas, it is said that when Kaliyuga started, all the
nine planets aligned in one line. This is an extremely rare event in human history. This is something
which happened approximately five thousand years ago (which is when the Mahabharata took
place) and scientists have themselves said this.
Similarly, in the Mahabharata there are a number of celestial formations mentioned during the
events at that time. There were rapid occurrences of lunar and solar eclipses which we can predict
using the scientific knowledge today. There is a video on YouTube – Krishna History or Myth? where
a professor has done complete research on this subject where he is talking about archeoastronomy
and the description of the celestial formations, eclipses and other formations in Mahabharat. He did
calculative dating of these formations and it came out to be approximately three thousand BC, that
is, five thousand years old which is when the Mahabharata took place.
Along with archaeology and archeoastronomy, another way to know is looking at the architectures.
We see that at least two thousand five hundred years ago, there were invaders from Europe and
other part of the world who came to India and while they were in India, they built structures and
columns where they put insignias of Krishna, Vasudeva etc.
Another way is, cross referencing other texts. When Buddhism and Jainism rose in India, at that
time, these religions, in order to attract followers, criticised Hinduism and their central figures like
Krishna and Rama, their philosophies and teachings. But it is important to note that none of them
ever said that Krishna and Rama are not historical figures. If these figures were imaginary then one
of the easiest ways for those critics to challenge the teachings and philosophy of Krishna and Rama
would be to deem them as mythology, but none of them did that. Hence, we see that the opponents
of the Vedic tradition have also talked about these figures.
Beyond all of this, we should also consider what history can prove and what it cannot prove. What
history can prove is maybe the existence of some people or things. When God descends in this
world, sometimes he performs some miracles and when such miracles are performed, those cannot
be historically proved. For example, if somebody asks, “Can you prove that Krishna lifted the
Govardhan hill?” There is no historical way to talk because these are super-natural things. Somebody

may doubt, “How Krishna could lift the Govardhan Hill? For me to lift this table on a finger, I will
have to find its centre of gravity. How could Krishna find the centre of gravity of Govardhan Hill?”
Well, if we understand Krishna’s position as God then we will know that Krishna does not need to
find the centre of gravity because he is the source of gravity.
Hence, miracles are not against science, miracles are above science. God makes the laws of nature
and sometimes if He wants, He can expand the laws of nature. We cannot prove such super-natural
things historically but at the same time, that is not what history is about? At present, we may doubt
whether such things happened or not but with archaeological studies we may get more evidence. As
India does not have enough earmarked funds for archaeological studies, that is why we do not have
much archaeological evidences apart from Dwarka and few other places but many of the cities which
even the Bible talked about and which were considered mythology, archaeological studies found
many of them to be true. Therefore, if we earmark more funds for archaeological studies in India,
surely many more evidences can come out. However, even with the sparse funds that have been
given today we have significant amount of archaeological, archeoastronomical and architectural
evidence by which we can make a strong case that the Mahabharata is historical. As for the
Ramayana, it being very old, the presence of same amount of evidence is not possible but the ones
that are present prove it to be historical as well.

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Video:

Transcription
Question: Is spirituality meant to make us feel good or does spiritual growth require us to feel bad?

Answer:

Interviewer: So, thank you so much, Chaitanya Charan Prabhu. I think most of the questions were very nicely answered. I just want to summarize the section on humility before we move to the next section.

So, you gave two wonderful definitions of humility. You said humility should lead us to the glorification of Krishna. That is the “trinad api sunichena” verse. That was very powerful and all the examples that you gave actually fell into that particular definition. The other definition that you gave is, humility is not to let our ego come in the way of our mission. So, these two definitions actually kind of solved all the other issues that we all asked.

And then in terms of practical applications, you mentioned that keep small things small, overlook provocations, have forgiveness in your heart, like keep forgiving people, stand up for yourselves, and when it comes to social media, we can understand if they are their mission and Krishna is not their mission, then that is not humility. So, thank you so much for a comprehensive view of humility. Now, I just want to talk about the other section on feel good, feel bad.

Let’s talk about one simple example of Arjuna. Krishna told Arjuna to fight, but the same Krishna told Uddhava to renounce, and in both cases, they both felt good.

Chaitanya Charan Prabhu: Krishna told whom not to fight?

Interviewer: Krishna told Arjuna to fight and Krishna told Uddhava to renounce.

Chaitanya Charan Prabhu: Okay.

Interviewer: Yeah, so in both cases, both Arjuna and Uddhava felt good by Krishna’s advice and that was of course Krishna, but when we go and do our outreach, we always have this problem. Sometimes we tend towards purification and sometimes we tend towards affirmations. We say that no, you have to get purified or sometimes we say no, it’s okay, whatever you’re doing is fine. So, this conflict always exists. Sometimes we just focus on saying that change your actions and sometimes we say just change your thinking.

In fact, most self-help tools, most self-help talks these days is focused on change your thinking, but don’t worry about your actions. Whereas in our movement, we focus on change your actions and it doesn’t matter about your thinking. So again, there’s this dichotomy.

So, in the next section of our discussion, if we can talk more about should we feel good, should we feel bad about these things, how do we balance it? Because sometimes when somebody says it is necessary to say that you should get purified and that person takes it as a good thing. He feels good. But the same advice, if you give it to another person and say that you just have to get purified, then that person might feel bad.

Chaitanya Charan Prabhu: Yeah. I see.

Interviewer: So, how do we know when to say what, when to feel good, when to feel bad or spirituality is beyond this and so on. So that’s the next section.

Chaitanya Charan Prabhu: This is actually a big subject and I suspect that we might need to have a separate discussion for this because our discussion on humility went quite far, but maybe I’ll address the specific issue that you raised and then depending on how many more questions are there, we could decide whether we want to have a separate session.

So, with respect to our practice of spirituality in our daily life, sometimes we may feel good, sometimes we may feel bad, and in different situations, different directions are given. So how are these to be reconciled? Well, I would say two or three different things are going on over here. First is that, I find it often very helpful to consider the mind to be like the body. It is a domain of reality in itself. At the level of the body, if somebody’s sole purpose is to be comfortable or even the sole purpose is to be safe. Now, safety is important and certainly we don’t want to trivialize, be casual about safety.

But somebody could argue that just going out in a car on a street increases the probability of an accident as compared to staying at home. Yeah. So, does that mean one should always stay at home? Safety is important. Safety is basic and we could say it’s important, but more than that is comfort. Now, physical comfort is… nobody in itself wants to be uncomfortable, but sometimes to grow physically, we need to be ready to put ourselves in some kind of discomfort. So, if somebody wants to be healthier, they need to do some exercises and doing exercise itself is not always comfortable. Just as there is the comfort of the body, there is the discomfort of the body.

It’s a problem when both become ends in themselves. If somebody thinks comfort is the only end that they seek in their lives, then their life will soon become meaningless because often doing something meaningful, doing something worthwhile requires taking some amount of discomfort. But on the other hand, if somebody makes discomfort itself a virtue, just see how much discomfort I’m putting myself in. Well, to make yourself uncomfortable is not the purpose of life. It is that we need to have something worthwhile to do and while doing that worthwhile thing, we try to avoid discomfort as much as possible, but that doesn’t mean that we have to avoid comfort also. The idea is that the body needs a certain level of comfort, and as much as possible, we create a comfortable situation, but creating a comfortable situation is not the purpose of life. The purpose is that physically comfortable situation is meant to help us focus on a purposeful life.

The same approach we can have toward our emotions also, that on an average, we don’t want to have disturbing emotions within us. We don’t like to feel worried. We don’t like to feel angry. We don’t like to feel confused. There are various kinds of emotions which make us feel bad. At the same time, if we want to do anything meaningful in our lives, it means investing ourselves in something that is not entirely in our control. As soon as we invest ourselves in something that is not entirely in our control, all these emotions will come up. Sometimes when something important for us is going wrong, there’ll be fear. If sometimes we don’t know what to do about a particular situation, there’ll be anxiety, there’ll be confusion rather, and sometimes when something goes opposite of way we want, there might be resentment, there might be anger. So, if one makes it the goal of their life to avoid these things, then they will never be able to do anything.

Life involves confronting uncomfortable emotions also, but we don’t make cultivating uncomfortable emotions the goal of one’s life. It’s that for doing something meaningful, if sometimes some uncomfortable emotions have to be confronted, that’s fine. So, say for example, ___840 spirituality. One extreme of spirituality, as you mentioned, is that we just want to feel good about ourselves and that’s why feeling good about ourselves means just have positive, uplifting thoughts. So, for example, some people in the name of affirmations, they will say, “I’m strong, I’m powerful, I can do whatever I set my mind on. I have all the abilities that I need.” This kind of affirmations could be healthier than just if our mind is constantly having a negative script, “you’re worthless, you will never amount to anything.” The second kind could be damaging. The first kind could be beneficial.

But if somebody gets caught only in affirmation and then there is no action following that affirmation, there is no meaningful action, no purposeful action, then what is the point of all that positive thoughts if there are no proper actions that are there. So, in spiritual life for spiritual growth, there are times when the bubble of our ego needs to be burst. If we are too full of ourselves, we need to get out of ourselves. But at the same time, spiritual life is not so much about feeling good or is it about feeling bad? It is about feeling a reality bigger than ourselves. In fact, feeling the ultimate reality. We want to connect with Krishna and in that sense we want our feelings to be free from ourselves.

If there is too much of self-congratulatory an attitude, then our feelings are caught in congratulating ourselves and then they’re not available for focusing on Krishna, on connecting with Krishna, on serving Krishna, on thinking about Krishna at a basic level. We don’t want that self-congratulatory attitude.

On the other hand, if there is a self-condemnatory attitude, I’m constantly beating myself up, then also my emotions are caught in myself and then also I’ll not be able to focus on Krishna. So, in that sense, we need to have a balance. Again, if we keep the purpose in mind, I want to have positive thoughts so that there are some positive actions, that I am able to do something worthwhile, something meaningful. So, we don’t make a fetish of feel good or of feel bad.

One major problem with spirituality as it is seen in the mainstream world is that spirituality is seen more as a shock absorber than as a life transformer or more specifically a purpose or a goal transformer. I want to do what I want to do and while I’m doing what I want to do, I want to feel good about myself also. That is a very utilitarian understanding of spirituality where we see it as a means to feel good. But that’s a very, we could say, a diluted or almost a distorted understanding of spirituality. Spirituality is much, much more.

Spirituality is meant to be a goal transformer. It reveals a higher reality to us, a higher reality of who we are, what the nature of the world is, what we are meant to do and it transforms that goal. Once it transforms the vision of our world, transforms our goal, and then when we are pursuing bigger things in our life, then sometimes we may feel bad because there are challenges, sometimes you may feel good, but that higher purpose is what consumes us, that is what absorbs us and that’s the essence of spirituality.

End of transcription.

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